But the same crowd had failed to raise a similar question on the Big Bang singularity of infinite density and energy. ‘Infinite’ with reference to what?
Apparently our universe came into existence when a point of infinite density and energy (dubbed as ‘singularity’) exploded about 15 billion years ago. The weird theorists propose that Time and Space also came into existence only after the Big bang. Apparently space and time didn’t exist before that and even if they had existed, some preach that they shouldn’t influence things in our ‘present’ Universe.
Let’s use a little bit of our commonsense here (relativists and quantumists won’t of course!).
If the singularity was of infinite density and energy, this was with reference to what?
If we assume that there was ‘nothing’ (and not even space) outside this ‘point’ called singularity, there shouldn’t have been an explosion in the first instance because there was no energy gradient for the explosion to occur. On the other hand, if we believe that there was empty space around that singularity into which it exploded, then that implies that there was space even before and the so called big bang just represents a local phenomenon in the already existing Universe. So it would be ridiculous to theorize that this Universe came into existence after big bang.
Also, if there was ‘nothing’ around the singularity and if big bang would still occur in this scenario, then even an electron or a photon could constitute a point of infiniteness (with respect to the nothing around it) and could trigger a ‘big bang’. But our Universe has much more matter and energy.
Better if the cosmologists understand the real explanation for the ‘red shift’ without falling prey to the bizarre theories of relativity and quantum physics. And Ether model provides a much better explanation for all the observations including the so called ‘cosmic microwave background radiation’ (CMBR).
(The origin of Big bang theory: Astronomers have discovered that the farther away a galaxy is, the more red-shifted its light is. This implied for them that the farther away the galaxies are, the faster they are moving away. And scientists interpreted this red-shift data as evidence that the Universe, including space itself, is expanding. So if our universe is expanding, it must all have started from a single point (of infinite energy and density) in the very remote past, they concluded, and Big bang theory came into existence. And then they observed what is called as cosmic microwave background radiation which again they took as another evidence for the big bang theory.)
Comments
Really good analogies that you’ve used above. Cool. But one comment from my side I think is very necessary here: My opinion is that even if the Big Bang DID happen, it definitely DID NOT create the entire universe/cosmos/space. It only created our LOCAL “Universe”. Once again, humans in the 21st century are still stuck in the WE ARE THE CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE mentality, hence the big bang theory. Rubbish I say. Ok, we know for sure that things do EXPLODE in space. Our powerful telescopes see it happening every day. So, that implies that it is VERY likely that a giant big bang explosion DID happen billions of years ago BUT this explosion or big bang happened INSIDE already existing SPACE. And this SPACE is probably infinite in size, and infinite in age. It probably never had a beginning. Yes, that is mind boggling, but makes much more sense than believing that NOTHING existed before the big bang… How foolish and stupid. You get solar systems, then small galaxies, then big galaxies, then small galaxy clusters, then big galaxy clusters, VERY big galaxy clusters, clusters of galaxy clusters, and maybe eventually you get a local universe which is only a bunch of clusters of clusters of clusters of galaxies. Seperated from other so called local universes maybe by giant mostly empty space…. who knows.. we havent directly SEEN or OBSERVED it yet.
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I agree with you, big bang could have happened in the back ground of an infinite universe and created our local universe. It would be stupid to propose that space and time didn’t exist before big bang as you have rightly pointed.
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Of course the whole Biggie Bangie idea is stupid.
Tell a physicist ‘free energy’ does exist and he or she will have a fit!
Then point to the Big Bang, by then they must have glazy eyes. 😉
Actually ALL of ‘modern physics’ is for me one big joke!
I really don’t take those people seriously anymore. It is all bulshit.
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Srinivas garu,
As ‘just a physics student’, I understand, not incorrectly, your arguments are really evocative ,if not provocative! Recently my professor told that we ‘inferior minds’ cannot grasp the difficulty of modern physics- which I wouldn’t agree, probably because my ‘Indian upbringing’ which quite rightly understands that every human being has the capacity to understand the creation- of not only the universe, but ‘everything’- he/she just needs to “work out” towards it!! Unless truth is the only criterion for modern physics- it will never become ‘scientific’. I have found a website (www.bibhasde.com) that technically justifies that big bang is wrong. Even the great Indian astrophysicist Jayant Narlikar never completely accepts it– he is, now in the ridiculous minority who is opposing the big bang, intellectually. My question, here, is what are the alternative approaches we have, considering that most of the modern cosmological theories are based upon the ‘assumption’ of BIG BANG? When I asked the professor, how is CMBR connected to BIG BANG, he couldn’t provide a satisfactory explanation- is this hypocrisy?? How come speculations are accepted as ‘intellectual prejudices’? Physics, science in general, has lost the respect today- and it is the responsibilty of scientists, alone! (May be, is this an exaggeration?)
After seeing the Robert Milikans “prejudice” about his own experiment (http://caltechln.library.caltech.edu/8/1/Millikan_2.pdf– just an example, there are many such ‘theories’ in modern physics) I, now believe that we need to change the way we think about physics, may be can we become a RISHI ??
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Glad to hear that from a physics student. Charan! That is not just the case with your physics professor or your self. Most professors blame upon their students’ ignorance for not being able to grasp the stupid theories that they teach and that helps them to hide their own ignorance. If they don’t pretend that way, they will surely loose their professorship and the respect that they enjoy. If the students don’t recite and reproduce the weird theories but instead keep challenging their teachers, they wouldn’t obviously progress in their career. So students have no choice but to accept that it is their ignorance which stops them from understanding the ‘cutting edge physics’. Those students who ‘survive’ and successfully ‘pass’ though this conflict, would progress to become professors and physicists. And those who fail to do so and refuse to accept the weird theories will be out casted. So where is the possibility for ‘self correction’ in science, a song often ‘sung’ by the scientists and their religious followers? The only way that the society can free itself of the vast ignorance is by reinstating philosophy and abandoning the stupid religion which portrays itself as science and masquerades as knowledge.
Coming to the ‘alternatives’, Ether model provides a very clear and logical explanation for all those cosmological observations (including CMBR, red shift and gravitational waves) which the modern physicists swear as proof of their weird theories. But even if we are not able to explain some observation, that doesn’t mean that we have to entertain some stupid theory. We just have to wait until we find the right answer.
(BTW I couldn’t open that link you have mentioned)
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drgsrinivas,
I do understand what you are saying. However I think it is not to hide their ignorance. I think because they are forced to teach this way, to keep those stupid theories alive! And they have to keep those stupid theories alive because
as I have said before, ‘science’ is a control-tool and has nothing to do with
searching for any truth. Science is here to hide the truth.
The key to the behavior of the professor is that he works for the ‘elite’!
(people behind the screen who reallly call the shots).
Since I figured that one out, I always have a laugh when someone introduces
a professor in the media.It is always,and I mean always to advance a hidden agenda and to influence public opinion in a certain way. nothing else!
Lots and lots to say about this one and it is a topic I researched for years and still do. It is fascinating!
E.g, the Royal Society was created purposely to hide things from the masses
by ‘science’. . “Science’ was created when religions didn’t work very good anymore for controllling the people.
And to put it mildly what I have discovered about ‘science’. It really is all bollocks!
yes, all of it!
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Galacar, some how I find it hard to believe that false science is promoted deliberately by someone. If that was really true, that someone must be highly intelligent and talented. I believe that physicists and teachers who swear by the false theories of science are really ignorant.
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drgsrinivas
Believe me I am aware how it sounds! However if you start really to investigate
this is what you will find. At first I didn’t believe it myself.
But I am prepared to give up my beliefs for truth.
Of course the ‘ground people’ are kept ignorant en indoctrinated without their
knowing. That is true.
However, at the top they are indeed very very clever and intelligent.
But not only hat, they have no ‘heart’ an extremely dangerous combination.
I am still in awe in how they pull this off! But slowly but surely I (and others) are founding this out..
An example. the ‘electron’ is not a particle at all! we have been fooled (again).
but by the way they handle the ‘electron’ in ‘science’ one start thinking of a
particle but it really is not.
Furthermore, as I said, the Royal Society was created to lie to the public.
The Members of the Royal Societ were all high ranking freemasons at the beginning. And the freemasons still have control over the universities.
(what a name! shouldn’t it be ‘diversities’? Just a thought)
And well to put it mildly, (hing ranking) freemasonry, is not looking out for our best interests.
So, in order to solve this puzzle you really have to study some of freemasonry,
to get to the bottom of this.
Freemasonry is responsible for the lack of thinking in our educational ( read: indoctrination) instiutions.
By now , you must have figured out that there is so much to tell about this,
but it really is true, Eevn worse, if you start digging you find out that the ; rabbithole’ goes even deeper then you can imagine!
Anyway, there is lots of information out there than can show you that this is right.
If you want to know more, let me know and I can put it up here.
But you have to be open for this kind of information, but my guess is you are!
Fascinating stuff! You have to buckle up then!
It will be quit a ride!
🙂
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(Apologies for the late reply, it is really late because of my examinations! Continuing my ‘just student’ understanding of modern science–)
Yes, the link is not opening. My point, here is, even the so-called “great’ physicists are prone to personal prejudices, this evenapplies to Newton,Einstein also.Or, best, just see the resent ‘BICEP2-gravitational waves-inflationary cosmology’ mash up; may be, ” celebrity science?”
Those people who are opposing the mainstream science( it is really not open-minded!) end up becoming conspiracy theorists; only few approach to it intellectualy, and I am glad to find such a place! Is modern science really rational??
Can new insights to mathematics enlighten about the future of physics(…..?) which may, including today`s established concepts, finally lead us to a different ‘thought’? Or do we need to change the ‘foundations’ of physics?
In this context, I think it would be nice if you speak about the work of Prof.C.K.Raju[1], Sidharth.G.Burra-they are really fascinating, in my understanding.
What is your opinion about the work of Amit Goswami? Can we proceed in that line of thought??( I think, eventhough his thoughts are really fresh- he says that they are old Indian concepts-he is westernised enough not to recognise the truth, unfortunately.)
[1]Indians should be grateful to Prof.Raju for proving, beyond doubt , that calculus was invented in India, albeit-in a different context- and ‘exported’ to Europe!
Thank You.
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charan
I am glad you mentioned calculus.btw NO invention of Newton, and someone else wrote his books. Newton was too dronk!
(btw his ‘laws’ are also very flawed!)
Anyway, talking about math and India, look up “Vedic Math” en you can improve hundredfold on your math! Vedic math is one of my hobbies! E,g, you can do calculations like 998 x 997 in 5 seconds And that is for starters! And yes, you can do
calculus also much more efficient! Have to stop now, or I will talk for hours on that one alone. I love, love, love to do “Vedic Math”
btw VM is another proof that we are being lied to and dumbed down by our indoctri oeps sorry for that typo , educational systems.ahum! 😉
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Regarding your interest in Indian Mathematics-
Evolution of Indian Mathematics–https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=aDy0axJfzrY
AND
An article by David Mumford( An extremely creative mathematician)-http://www.ams.org/notices/201003/rtx100300385p.pdf
Thank You.May the world meditate in true knowledge.
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Galacar
I find it hard to believe that Newton was such a ‘lunatic'(sorry for using the word); especially when I learned-through C.K.Raju-that he studied and tried to prove Religious scriptures, Bible, for more than two decades!! When I asked my professor about a flaw being formulated in Newton`s laws, he said “shhh! you cannot go aginst GOD!!”(putting it in my words)Many, even professors, consider Newton as some sort of GOD of science?
Physics( to some extent,modern science too) allows us to think about nature in a very mechanical, reductionistic view( may be, as far as I understand, QM is an exception to this); which needs to change.The recent BICEP2 experiment
(and many such!)should be evidence about how should it change?
I hope you have heard of the folllowing book- is this really true??
“The Manufacture and Sale of Saint Einstein -by Christopher Jon Bjerknes”
But, many scientists( so called?) speak about physics changed the world and ‘everything is physics’; physics gave us many technologies etc..( Roger Penrose mentions this in his book, it is quiet evident that he is ignorant about his own ‘compartmentalised’ field!)
BTW, enjoyed watching this–
(There were few spelling mistakes in my previous comment,to be noted.)
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Charan,
Thanks fro your reply.
I will break it down as best as I can:
“Galacar
I find it hard to believe that Newton was such a ‘lunatic'(sorry for using the word); especially when I learned-through C.K.Raju-that he studied and tried to prove Religious scriptures, Bible, for more than two decades!! ”
Well, In reality he was a kind of maician or sorcerer and into the occult,
And, yes his books are NOT written by newton himself.
“When I asked my professor about a flaw being formulated in Newton`s laws, he said “shhh! you cannot go aginst GOD!!”(putting it in my words)Many, even professors, consider Newton as some sort of GOD of science?”
Don’t you see how dangerous that is? It is what I always say ‘science’ is like a religion!
It really is a control tool and nothing more.
Doesn’t the reaction of the professor bother you? If ‘science’ is about truth, logic and being rational, his reaction is very weird,
One must be able to criticse, and think about anything.
For me this is a red flag (again!!), that his theories are wrong , and they really are very very wrong.
So, what I see here is a professor ‘gate -keeping’ his ‘science’ !!
If there is any truth in Newton’s ideas they don’t have to be defended or guarded. They can defend themselves.
And then there is the logic fallacy of “Appeal to authorities”. We can see that in the reaction by the professor,
Furthermore, finding it hard to believe is exactly what some people want!
The way how this world really works is indeed very hard to believe if you have been spoon fed fairytales at school. I understand that but it is nothing more than
‘conflicting´ ideas. That really is all.
Once I started doing researching into his sort of thing, I didn´t believe a lot that I see now as truth.
Fortunately, I didn´t let my beliefs stopping me from investigating into these things, and now I feel I have less ´beliefs´ which makes it easier for
me to research things instead of having knee jerk rejections.
“Physics( to some extent,modern science too) allows us to think about nature in a very mechanical, reductionistic view( may be, as far as I understand, QM is an exception to this); which needs to change.The recent BICEP2 experiment
(and many such!)should be evidence about how should it change?”
I don’t understand you here, sorry
“I hope you have heard of the folllowing book- is this really true??
“The Manufacture and Sale of Saint Einstein -by Christopher Jon Bjerknes””
I have the book here, Yes I really it is true, at least according to me Btw is is a huge book! 2000 pages!
“But, many scientists( so called?) speak about physics changed the world and ‘everything is physics’; physics gave us many technologies etc”
Did you know that , and I recently found this out to my surprise, there is NOT ONE thing here, because of
‘modern physics’, and I mean really NOT ONE!!
And by ‘modern physics’ I mean the physics from when the village idiot einstein started his idiotic theories!
Just name an invention which is because of so called ‘modern physics’ and I can show it false!
On a last note. I am aware how contoversial I may sound. However , after 14 years of researching this kind of thing, I have found out that we
are fooled and lied to in so many areas and on a massive scale, So, yes, also in ‘science” .
For now my ‘rule’ is, that if something is promoted heavily in ‘science’ it is most probably untrue! Because if something would be
really true ‘they’ wouldn’t let us know!
However, I am not saying that I researched it for so long , so that you will believe me.
Please, don´t believe anything I say and just do your own research. Strange they never ask that at school! 😉
In the end it all is about control.
So much more to tell but I leave it at this for now.
Thanks for reading.
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Surely a pearl of wisdom for the people of modern society. Really tells how spoilt is our modern science and how selfish are our ‘intelligent’ scientists!
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Thankyou for your reply. I sincerely respect your opinions.
My thought is, recently in the BICEP2 experiment-which is set up to ‘prove’ inflationary cosmolgy, multiverse or even gravitational waves and what not ? – which is proved to be wrong( to my knowledge) and it is really sad to see what the scientists have to say- supporting their failure as ‘this is how science works’ kind of stuff.Unfortunately there are many like this today.If TRUTH is controversial, let it be,TRUTHSEEKERS have a special place in the world!!
https://dreamheron.wordpress.com/–in this website, an unknown astrophysicist proves(?) that BIG BANG is an experimental botch up and it is wrong–how to believe these things? Are these true?If such a basic issue, BIG BANG, which is the central pillar of modern cosmoplogy which is supposedly ‘scientific’ , is false how can we be confident about truths being discovered by ‘science’?We are already losing our ‘faith’ in modern medical science?
Reductionism ( a principle which many contemparary scientists ‘believe’ has-had-come to an end) allows us to destroy the nature in order to study it; but we need to develop a kind of reverence towards nature to proceed in a holistic,integral approach.
(Was recently reading an article on how Kepler ‘fabricated’ data to suit his own theory, needless to say, may be ,after all, something is ‘really fishy’ in modernity!)
{This is the source of my thoughts regarding calculus–“Cultural Foundations of Mathematics;The Nature of Mathematical Proof and the Transmission of the Calculus from India to Europe in the 16th c. CE Project of History of Science, Philosophy and Culture in Indian Civilization Volume X Part 4” by C.K.Raju}.
ThankYou
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charan,
“TRUTHSEEKERS have a special place in the world!”
Absolutely! And that is because we are surrounded by thousands of lies.
But the ‘matrix’ is being unmantled as we speak!
Love to help with this. So much wrongs in this world!
About the Biggie Bangie. Of course that one never happened.
So much to show that it can’t be true, it is unbelievable!
o btw , talking about the ‘matrix’. The so called ‘constant speed of light” is
not really so. But it IS the speed in our ‘matrix’. In reality there is no limit to
the speed of light..
(That immediately proves that all calculations abouit lightyears etc are obsolete!)
Ah well, I might just say it now, the whole of science is obsolete!
Yes, all of it! The evolution theory, Biggie Bangie there never was one,
relativity, quantum mechanics, black holes they don’t exist, pasteur was extremely wrong, electron theory is wrong, atom theory is wrong , cosmology is very wrong, and so on and so forth.
Have a nice day!
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Galacar, 2 things.
1: It’s “DISmantled” …(not “Unmantled”). tho I still understood what u meant, so yeah whatever. lol
2: The theory of Evolution is TRUE!!! I cant object to anything else in your list of “Wrongs,” but evolution is definitely true… if u disagree then I DARE you to give some alternative explanation that makes more sense than evolution does!
3 : I’m curious to hear what is the reason black holes is wrong? what’s the alternative answer that better explains the phenomenon we think of as black holes?
just some constructive criticism, I’m starting to realise that mainstream Science and especially relativity just doesn’t make sense when really it should be so simple to understand! respect to you and the Dr Srinivas for trying to educate others!
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Blue Heffnir,
Thanks for your reply.
Sorry for my mistake (unmantled) but english is not my native language.
But I am willing to learn.
I don’t think this is the place, but no, evolution is not true.
It is a hoax from a-z.
What you are asking me, and a lot of people reply this way. that having no
alternative theory makes another one right. Excuse me, but that is nonsense
of course.EVIDENCE is the only thing that makes it true!
But I will add that I understand why people BELIEVE evoution so deeply.
People are indoctrinated with that shite from cradle to grave!
(there is a very deep reason for this!)
And, just to be sure, I am no creationist. I once belived the evolution
unconditionally 😉
I only see a huge lack of evidence in evolution.
But because this is not the topic here I will leave it from here but I wanted to answer you.
About the black holes, hmmm so much wrong with it, but you can start here e.g.
Stephen Crothers is way more intelligent than the average academic.
I have read some critic from academic and it is hilarious!
Stephen Crothers is also very funny to listen to.
So, enjoy!
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Galacar, thanx 4 replying, and sorry I took long 2give this 1 now.
“What you are asking me, and a lot of people reply this way. that having no
alternative theory makes another one right. Excuse me, but that is nonsense
of course.”
I agree. Its a good thing that I never actually said that! But I can understand why you would ASSUME that I did.
Likewise, simply saying something is wrong doesn’t automatically make it so (“The evolution theory…electron theory is wrong…”) Etc.
In summary:
1- I didn’t argue from ignorance,
2- nor did I argue from personal incredulity,
3- Therefore, what/how u responded to me is known as a “Straw Man fallacy”
In closing I’ll say this: Evolution is almost universally rejected by those who don’t understand it, and almost universally accepted by those who do! (Can’t remember who said that, maybe Dawkins??)
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Srinivas garu,
I am genuinely interested in this topic.I have asked this question to many people-but without any success.
(Submitting few links,regarding my question)
Click to access 9804020.pdf
Click to access Vol29_4_6_NGDongre.pdf
Click to access article_id_066_04_0323_0326_0.pdf
Click to access Vol31_4_1_MJShendge.pdf
Click to access article_id_066_10_0784_0790_0.pdf
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/nov/18inter.htm (optional !!)
Regarding speed of light being a constant-barrier,there is a very old popular theory going against the “established knowledge”
Click to access Taquiones.pdf
Have you written about this?How far can we “imagine the universe”?When and How can we scientifically think of “travelling beyond galaxy”??
Regarding Black Holes, in a recent seminar(in Bangalore) for a question asked “What about quantum black holes ?”,the reply by the gentle professor was “yes,only fiction!” BTW we do have many “Black Hole wars” happening!!!
A “very different”,but important, short recent talk, in Physics Department of IITK,
However, I am glad that I found a place of “true thinkers”!
{A ‘strange’ question: are we citizens,as part of modernity, facing “scientific fundamentalism”?}
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charan
Thanks!
You wrote:
“{A ‘strange’ question: are we citizens,as part of modernity, facing “scientific fundamentalism”?}”
First of all I don’t think it is a strange question.
Once you are awakening to what is really going on. you will ask this kind of questions.
However, I see it as a ‘scientific dictatorship’
I see ‘science’ as a control tool to ‘hypnotize’ the massses.
As religions used to do, but they became less efficient. Hence ‘science’
And I am still studying this and the more I see ‘scientists’ and listen to what they say, it is really unbelievable how stupid they are!
However, I see them as victims of a very malignent system.
I think everyone, well apart from 5% or so, is born a genius, including the people
who call themselves ‘scientist”. Until their ‘eduction’ (read: indoctrination) starts.
But the ‘scientistst’ have now a big huge labyrinth in their head and they can’t escape so easily.
All this reminds me of this quote:
Just look at us. Everything is backwards, everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, psychiatrists destroy minds, scientists destroy truth, major media destroys information, religions destroy spirituality and governments destroy freedom.”
-Michael Ellner
Ad, there is a reason why it is al turned upside down, but my guess is you won’t believe me!
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Galacar, thank you for those wonderful quotes of wisdom. I really feel like posting that ‘upside down’ quote on the front/ index page.
And charan, I haven’t forgotten your question. While I may not be able to critically go through all those links or ‘understand’ them, I will give you a reasoned answer.
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Galacar
“And, there is a reason why it is all turned upside down, but my guess is you won’t believe me!”
I do have some believes, but I am ready to sacrifice those believes for TRUTH.And I don`t think belief is a hindrance for realizing truth,scientifically.
Anyways, Thank you for that wonderful quote-did not knew that bitter TRUTH can be put so beautifully! (I will save that quote!!)
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charan
Yes, belief is absolutley a hindrance for realizing any truth,scientifically. I see it every day.
It is also called conceptial blindness, There is also confirmation bias
I have some examples of people who did research and were deeply blinded by their beliefs. See also cognitive dissonance .
Another important concept is ‘perception deception’ I think the last is the crux of the matter!
So, I still think that if I gave you the real reason for why everything is inverted,
I think you won’t believe me, and might think I am very very crazy.
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Then, I can only encourage on your journey.
But, from my “little” personal experiences,I have found that- people,initially they may be sceptical,will finally accept the TRUTH-and that is the beauty of humanity!
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charan
Finally, yes, they have too,
That is why I, and others, don’t stop!
Here another quote:
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
—
Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
But it might take a loooooong time and hard work.
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Blue Heffnir,
You wrote:
“Evolution is almost universally rejected by those who don’t understand it, and almost universally accepted by those who do! (Can’t remember who said that, maybe Dawkins??)”
Well, that smells like circular reasoning to me!
If you are not in, you are not in.
Furthermore, I don’t care what any ‘scientist” says, because first of all they are all been brainwashed by their indoctrin… oeps sorry education system.
And they can’t think straight anymore ( that is what this webpage is all about!!)
Secondly, out of fear most toe the official partyline, otherwise they will be ‘out’
(Don’t believe me? Look up the movie “Expelled, no intelligence allowed”)
Apart from all this. It is simply not true. There are ‘scientists’ who don’t describe to the evolutiontheory.
But well, you can of course narrow down the definition of ‘science’ and say that
people who don’t believe in evolution are not scientists.
But I am sure you didn’t mean that, right? 😉
Thirdly. This is the fallacy of popularity mixed with the fallacy of authority.
Only look at our past to see who wrong this all is!
(btw any REAL technology came from ‘loners’, very intelligent, non-brainwashed loners. NOT from ‘academic science” I repeat NOT from academic science.
As I stated elsehwere. Nthing came from our ‘academic science’.
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To Galacar,
Again,lots of wisdom in your words.
(Regarding your comment on REAL technology,which is–unfortunately–true,I recall a Documentary that I saw in a Indian Government show,when I was a child,about the highly creative works of J.C.Bose!!)
Even though I know very little about Evolutionary Theory, as I understand,it should not be called as “scientific”.
To Srinivas garu,
Will be waiting for your reply.To put things straight–
“What benefit would it be, to go through the (ancient) Indian scientific works regarding many issues that Modern Science is facing today?
In my view,with my little knowledge of Ancient Indian Science,at least as I know it,the explanations given in them–whether it may be Physics,Psychology,or Astronomy– are far more ‘rational’ than the ad-hoc, arrogant explanations of today!”(Correct me,if I am wrong here;as I will be humble to reevaluate my opinions in search of Truth.)
“And,in one of the 12th century Indian mathematical text,you find the value(accurate to 90% of today) of Speed Of Light; along with the Physics part of it(the link of which is posted here, before).There are many parallels like this-if dealt intellectually, would solve–at least in my view–many ‘riddles’ of Science(read Modern)”
{No ideologies here,please!!}
Thank You.
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Galacar,
You keep making bald assertions but yet fail to give even one example of evidence to support your argument!😴
You say its wrong. I say its right. I was hoping to have learnt something from you, but it seems to be an excersise in futility for me to even think of having a meaningful debate when you feel you don’t need to give any EVIDENCE to support your claims. (Evidence, which you claimed earlier, as being the only thing that makes it indeed true! Quite Ironic don’t you think?!)
Other than this one topic of evolution, I tend to agree with most of what you say in your comments on this site! And I’m sorry if it seems as if I made you look like a troll now by pointing out all the ad hominems, straw men, and all the other fallacious tactics employed in your responses to me!
Anyways, don’t bother to reply unless you start giving evidence to support your claims! Keep well dude! Cheers!😉
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Blue Heffnir ,
Nice tone. mate 😦
Anyway, I stand after everything , everything I wrote on this site.
Furthermore, you even don’t tell me where you want ‘evidence’ for?
But my guess is whatever I will write you will ‘edit’ it so that it is understandble in your worldview. If it is about the more then stupid theory of evolution, then yes, it is a huge hoas. Like everything that is pushed like this stupid theory.
I mentioned some other ones before.
You really have no idea how deep we are being screwed.
But here is only room for small postings here, and this site is not about evolution.
I have written that that is why I keep it short.
And ”fallacious tactics” ? Come one, mate!
Why this angry tone?
Was it something I said? 😉
And, regarding your ‘tone’. from here it really looks like you have lots of personal trouble with me stating some things here.
Look at it this way. Even if I was wrong about these things? So what?
I just have a different opinion then yours. Why being so upset about something
like that? Just think about that, ok?
Am I upset because you happen to disagree with me? No.
Looks like someone is attacking your religion.
Maybe leave this for now, mate.
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Yes friends, better you leave it there. I think, the fact that Blue Heffnir hasn’t fallen prey to the stupid theories of physics proves him as a rational guy. Let us welcome him to share his views and to take part in the discussion. Unlike with fixed dogmas/ beliefs, valuing differences in opinions would only help us broaden our minds and make us more intelligent.
BTW, friends, I am hoping to improve the blog and make it more interactive. Any suggestions/ tips please? I am not cyber savvy. And, Of late, I am getting little time to work on this and to present my views. But one day, I hope that I will be able to free myself from everything else so that I can dedicate my whole time towards this holy mission.
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To Srinivas garu,
[Just sharing my views…]
1)We should widen the reach of this forum-i.e to all the other topics of Physics,Astrophysics/Cosmology and Particle Physics too-since,we really need “True-Thinkers” today very badly.
2)Let us not use the words ‘religiously’ or any other ‘crook words’ or for battles of personal ideologies; and let this continue to be a genuine Scientific forum.
3)It should not be restricted to ‘contradicting the established view’ but also asking and answering the questions “How? Why?” part of the thought and also the ‘modified view’ of the subject in the discussion.
Finally,best wishes for your journey.Let your mission be successful,as an epitome of “Truth-Seeking” process.
Thank You
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You don’t accept relativity and QM theories.
From some comments it seems you don’t accept Newton’s laws.
Is there anything that you accept?
how about s = v t ?
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You mean I must accept at least one of them despite the fact that none of them stand to logic? Coming to your S=vt, I do accept that as long as you don’t allow the relativity to mess up the things with time dilation and space contraction!
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To Srinivas garu,
[Just sharing my views….]
1)Firstly,the words “religiously”,”crank”,”conspiracy” etc, should be removed from the forum’s dictionary; without indulging in any kind of personal ideological battles.
2)It should also not be limited to any one particular “branch” of Science,instead it should also argue about Cosmology/Astrophysics and Particle Physics;the world urgently needs “True Thinkers” today!!
3)Not only the “exposing the immaturity of ‘established’ views” part, but also “explaining the ‘honest’ explanation of nature” should be dealt intellectually.
4) Recent–fortunately,there are,at least (very)few “Truth Seekers” today–Scientific Research regarding the topic should also be mentioned and discussed.
[Just shared my views….]
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To Srinivas Garu,
Eagerly waiting for your reply, to my previously asked question.
Thank You
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Charan, sorry to keep you waiting for long. Here is my view.
I think it is pretty much true that people of ancient times had enjoyed much longer ‘natural lifespan’ (BTW average life span is not the ideal measure of longevity of a species) than our modern cult. And, of late, I am convinced that our ancestors were actually more intelligent than the people of our modern civilised society. I think, the more civilised and more technology dependent the society becomes, the less intelligent the people become!
Of course, we can’t swear upon everything that is mentioned in ancient texts, whether Indian or Greek or others as correct. It is possible that there existed many false theories in ancient times. It could be that some statements were meant only for those times and hence may not be relevant to the modern era. So it could be possible that big bang theory, evolution and other theories of modern science existed in ancient India at some point of time, possibly in somewhat different versions. The Greeks could have borrowed the same from ancient India or they could have independently conceived similar theories. And may be the fathers of modern science like Darwin, Einstein took a leaf out of them.
If we keep that aside, I do believe that our ancient literature and religious texts are great sources of wisdom and studying them will surely help us gain better insight into many aspects and solve the riddles that our modern sciences are struggling with, whether it is about our Universe or life philosophy or social harmony and peace. But of course it isn’t going to be an easy and straight forward task and it is almost certain that people of modern Era misunderstand them, misinterpret them and get mislead.
The reason is that most people of modern era, including the religious preachers, are educated and so are indoctrinated by modern sciences. The situation now is that, even the spiritual gurus and religious authorities believe that science is true. In a way, their minds are spoiled and are incapable of independently judging the ancient literature and realising the truth. Unfortunately education has become such a compulsory social ritual in modern society that it is leaving few minds to think and flourish independently.
I think, for people who explore ancient literature, the main motive or intention will be to prove their ancient literature as highly scientific. The only way to prove one’s ancient literature as scientific is by finding correlations between the ancient and modern sciences. So what happens is that people who explore the ancient literature just concentrate on finding statements and ‘theories’ that vaguely sound similar to what the modern scientists preach.
Even the religious authorities have started reinterpreting their religious texts, and more and more of them are ‘realising’ that many of the statements mentioned in their religious texts are actually in agreement with modern science. And anything that is presented as scientific or as conforming to modern science obviously gains more acceptance in our modern educated society.
Obviously, the lack of clarity in ancient texts combined with the mess created by the mythical theories of modern physics gives vast scope for people to misinterpret things and ‘find’ correlations between the ancient and modern sciences. And in a way, that helps religious people to stand against the hardcore scientific minds like atheists, sceptics who are fighting against the existence of religions in modern society.
It is likely that the vast majority of the ancient literature got destroyed over time and I think the available religious texts contain only the essence of all that literature. The fact that the religious texts got conserved over generations and survived through many cycles of civilisation suggest that there must be truth in them.
Unfortunately, despite the great words of wisdom in the ancient religious texts, for lack of explanation/ clarity, many of the statements sound illogical and absurd even to the intelligent readers. Recently, I have read a quote apparently taken from Quran which says: “Logic is the tool of Satan”. I think even hard core Muslims don’t agree with that statement. I too thought it was stupid but just gave a thought. And I got shocked when I realised the hidden truth in that quote and the relevance to society.
Most humans are not intelligent enough to think logically. And if they use their own logic, they end up coming to different conclusions and the result would be confrontations, disharmony, violence and disintegration of societies. (But why didn’t God made all of us equally intelligent and programmed us to think the same? In other words what if everybody thinks the same way? That would be the most boring society to live!)
While it is the religiousness that helps maintain harmony and peace, it is variations in opinions, beliefs, likings and choices that make a society dynamic and interesting to live. So I think it is better if people are religious to some extent and follow what the authorities preach even if it means that at times the authorities could be wrong and people could be clinging to false beliefs. It is better to live in a peaceful ignorant society than a ‘knowledgeable’ society quarrelling each other. Having some control is far better than not having any control. I have a feeling that Galacar may not agree with that. I would like to hear his views on this point.
BTW, as part of my work on the issue of God and evolution, I have realised that there are two ways of realising God: one is the religious route (Bhakti marg) and the other is Satanic or scientific route (Jnana Marg). (Of course both are mentioned in the Hindu texts). The later one questions the existence of God and logically explores the world and understands the creation through to the deepest level and finally realises the existence of God. So it is Satan that helps people become saints! But the problem with this route is that most people get stuck in between, come to false/immature conclusions and succumb to the material addictions. That explains why there is so much suffering and misery in our modern scientific society despite all the ‘development’. And that is probably the reason I think why most religions don’t encourage the Jnana marg or Logic!!!
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Thank You,For your reply,Dr. Srinivas sir.It was, by far, the most ‘intelligent’ reply–though I cannot agree with a few points–that I have come across.
1)In the second link that I have mentioned here before–taken from the Indian Journal Of History Of Science–there is a paper on ‘Ancient Spectroscopy’, and an instrument with which Ancient Indians measured the ‘properties of Spectrum of Light’;now,we can make an educative guess of saying that they did have the necessary instruments to measure the Speed Of Light.(If you forget the ‘intuition’ part of the story!!)
My question is–
If they did it,what physical ideas-‘epistemology’-did they use?How different is it from the today`s ‘established’ views?How can this FACT change course of our understanding of physical reality?
[It is,on the other hand,understandable that research into this topic–of History Of Science– is absolutely absent today,thanks to lethargic academia!]
2)We,as human beings, have a natural tendency to think about nature–and if thinking about nature,scientifically,is a natural process–than why do we have many “unnatural” realities today?Why is understanding nature ‘difficult’, ‘counter-intuitive’,’impossible’??
If a technology is harming nature, then how can we call it as “Scientific”;it means that we are not able to understand a concept of nature, for nature would never expect us to behave “unnaturally” (i.e causing pollution),right??
{ Few important papers for the kind of discussions that we are making in this forum-
Click to access Planetary-motion-Newton-and-Buddhism.pdf
AND
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.210.9017&rep=rep1&type=pdf }
(You may not,I understand, like to go through all the links I have mentioned.But,expecting a ‘honest’ answer;excuse!!!)
Thank You
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I don
t think that the motive is ''to prove their ancient literature as scientific''(this very term 'Scientific' has many impotent definitions today).But it is to understand the TRUE history of Science,there by to get an accurate picture of reality as understood by different cultures.s History Of Science–especially, Asian contributions have been systematically been misinterpreted. It is the job of todayAnd,whether we realize it or not, there is a racist historiography prevailing in today
s 'True Thinkersto get things straight, not to make any priority claims,but it is our duty.Regarding the ‘lost knowledge’,I can just say–
“”Recently, an Indian University has cataloged the number of Sanskrit texts about Science and Technology available all over the world.They were able to make 58 volumes–each volume of approximately 400 pages–only to record the topic and the period of the work!!
It should, then,intuitively obvious, that it represents only a small portion of the ‘Big Picture’.And even in the field of Astronomy–this applies to Ayurveda too–only 15.2% of the material has been researched.
There is lot of material available–at least, to my knowledge–but very few genuine researchers!””
(Since this is out of topic, I am not speaking too much about it.And since this is increasingly an active area of research–especially,in India– I am not resorting to make any wild claims, which would be unethical.)
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Charan, I do agree that not everybody who studies ancient literature does it with the intention of ‘proving’ that as conforming to modern science. There are probably many who are curious of knowing how our ancestors thought and so study the ancient literature with great passion. And whether we find our ancestors right or wrong, knowing about their ideas and their technology would surely broaden our scientific perspective and enlighten us.
Ancient Indians probably had the technology and knowledge to study the spectral properties of light and obviously it would be interesting to know how they actually did that. About the speed of light part, I am yet to figure out what that value ‘c’ (3x10power8 m/sec) which we all believe as speed of light actually stands for. I am pretty sure that the value ‘c’ doesn’t represent speed of light. As I have explained else where, light waves are nothing but waves in ether medium and are not different from water waves or air waves. They probably travel at varying speeds- I think red light travels slower than blue light etc. And like water waves, the speed of light waves must decrease as they propagate. That explains the so called cosmological red shift which drove our physicists to propose an expanding universe and the big bang theory.
But if ‘c’ is not the speed of light, then what does that value stand for? When our scientists experimentally ‘measured’ speed of light as ‘c’, did the instrument really give them the speed of light or it gave them something else? How come that figure popped out of Maxwell equations? How come the same figure pops up in our ancient texts? That’s what intrigues me now.
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I was just reading various of other articles in this forum.
I have a question,in fact ,many similar questions–from my childhood–but din`t knew whom to ask;but,I am happy about this forum–
“”I remember a Telugu Poem–it should be obvious that it can be found in the literature of all Indian languages,inspired by Sanskrit literature–that I learned as a child, I found,in it, a mention of the accurate value ‘number of species in the whole world’-8.4 million species (in a recent paper published in “Nature” the figure is not only ‘almost close’ but exactly same!!) This feat is no less of a Great Scientific achievement.This was before modern Genetics.
AND
There is no need for a poet to be so accurately quantitative,descriptive about nature;this– and many similar FACTS–cannot be explaining just by parroting the same old story of ‘co-incidence’.
These thoughts lead to the conclusion–to my knowledge–that there is a completely different,new(actually old!) dimension in the Scientific understanding of nature.
Is this just possible because of few Mathematical Procedures(of which they were Masters) OR something else(Intuition,Meditative introspection;as suggested by few Scientists)?
Are my thoughts correct??
Note: Lest I be misunderstood,I am ‘just a Science student’;the only reason for quoting Indian sources is because of my relatively good knowledge about it, as an Indian.
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Charan, it is truly amazing to know that. I think our ancient Hindu sages and philosophers knew a lot more about Nature and creation than our modern celebrity scientists. Apart from their knowledge about the number of life forms on earth, I think they were able to predict the movements of stars/ planets, occurrence of solar and lunar eclipses etc.
I don’t think they did all that because they had some hi-tech equipment. If one understands Creation to the deepest level, one would know everything about Nature automatically. And there existed plenty of such great sages in ancient India. Because Nature isn’t erratic unlike what the quantumists preach, it is possible that they were able to predict/know everything by just their thought process. They probably were able to experience the entire universe at once, and see the past and the future. And I am sure they calculated things much faster than the entire software that exists at the LHC.
What else would constitute more advanced technology than that we already see in Nature? What else can harness and store power more efficiently than photosynthesis? What else that man invented would constitute more fuel efficient engines than living organisms? We can go on listing the various ‘technologies’ that are inherent in the Nature from waste disposal mechanisms, recycling and so on so forth. And, how do various celestial bodies communicate and influence each other? Isn’t gravity some technology of highest order? Can there be any technology that is more intelligent/ elegant than the one that orchestrates this entire universe? All the modern technology that man invented amounts to nothing in front of the natural technologies.
What is the ultimate phenomenon that underlies all those natural ‘technologies’? How do things communicate and influence each other? All that occurs purely because of flow of energy from one to another. And what underlies the human thought process and human actions? Again they occur from flow of energy. So it is possible that enlightened people, who managed to understand the Universe to the deepest level, could see/harness/influence every phenomena/technology that exists in Nature just by their thoughts! The more they understand about Nature, the more capable they become.
The truly enlightened people of our ancient times lived happily despite leading the most basic life style. They lived happily in forests in much ‘primitive’ conditions. But the ‘intelligent’ people of modern era aren’t happy despite all the luxuries and air-conditioned rooms. So, none of the technology that we are proud of has really contributed to the happiness and well being of mankind. Rather it only made people dependent.
Happiness comes from knowledge and not from material wealth and luxuries. True knowledge never makes people crave for material luxuries. Those who understand the Universal orchestral mechanism and see the whole picture of the Nature experience what is called as bliss or ultimate happiness. And material world becomes the least interesting thing to them. They would realise that death is a natural process and they would happily walk through it.
It is the ignorant material minds who are scared of death and are obsessed with living in this world at any expense. They die every day in their frantic efforts to live longer and endanger and kill so many other species in the process. Thus people of scientific era are proud of things that they must actually be ashamed off!
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To Srinivas sir,
Thank You for your long reply.
1)Regarding “Ancient-high-technology”, I think we should not conclude anything by now–
http://www.academia.edu/5421900/HIGH_TECHNOLOGY_IN_ANCIENT_SANSKRIT_MANUSCRIPTS
And since, I am not speaking with regard to (though interested in!) Ancient Indian Science as such, I am ending it here; may be I have written a lot about it quiet unconsciously, though my intentions are quiet different,excuse me.
But my concern is about something (not so!) different.
2)Because the arguments that I find here are more natural and logical than that I find in probably all Physics journals!(Again,as ‘just a student’ I do have my limitations.), have you developed any theories extrapolating your ideas?
3)However, have you tried publishing any papers In “academic” journals?
I recently found, in a Science Magazine that almost 60% of published papers in Physics journals are “pseudo-science”; is this really true?
4)While searching for “alternative explanations” I have just found this–
Click to access retarded_gravitation_theory-rio.pdf
https://eternalblogs.wordpress.com/category/abhas-mitra/
What is your opinion on this line of thinking?
Thank You.
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I have been trying to explain Olber’s Paradox using aether. But I did not it also explain red shift.
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I do agree that big bang is the climax of mainstream phyc’s lunacy.
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Big bang theory for now is the best we have till something more reasonable comes along
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@Savy,
Ok, so you still believe in the “big Bang” then? That’s ok with me, but I think it is a very stupid and ridiculous idea, like most ideas in ‘modern physics’.
my two cents,
Galacar
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i am a 77 year old guy who (thankfully) had no “deep” science backgound even after 12 years of various college studies. very thankful for sites like this one and the people who post. i am understanding the common lies that underpin almost all “disciplines”. took a lot of reading etd. many years.
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Big bang, dark matter, dark energy and other inventions are the grossest mistakes of cosmologists. Such elementary mistakes made by these so-called “cosmologists” are not permissible even for middle school students of the most mediocre school. These errors are analyzed in detail on a solid foundation of physical laws (without any scientific delusional fantasies of cosmologists) in the book “Big Bang of Scientific Idiocy”, author Pavlovich Konstantin. The book can be downloaded from аmаzon for 10 days for free. And don’t delete my comment.
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Thanks to the site for its critical attitude towards charlatans-comologists. Thank you for setting the optics of the fooled population to sharpness.
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